Want a faster Gear shift?

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Permalink Reply by 451 Kahn on October 18, 2008 at 1:26am

Check the video. I had my ECU remaped. They also worked on my gear shifting time. Compare my video to your car and see if you notice any difference.
http://www.451s.com/video/video/show?id=1912846:Video:43074

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Permalink Reply by BigPerformance on October 18, 2008 at 6:05am

" I had my ECU remaped. They also worked on my gear shifting time."

NO that is a seperate ECU!!!

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Permalink Reply by andrewd on October 18, 2008 at 7:46am

YES!!! thats why i want some american tuning company to invest in it, they have the market for it.... afaik im the only 451 turbo owner in aus who has had the ecu remapped...

i'd love to shave a few seconds off the gearshift time, especially now that it has 115hp @ the engine, the car is crazy in gear untill........................ ZZZzzzZZzzZZZzzZ ohh there's the next gear!

Big whats the most boost you have been able to run on the 451 reliably so far? mine is up around 3psi more than stock.... you can now hear it much better and it sound awesome, but i'd like some real boost like in the 450 ppl easily running 16+psi

if you think about it in reality 1L turbo with forgies and other supporting mods larger turbo and reprogrammed ecu to suit the engine specs there'd be no need for a stupid bike engine conversion, 100+kw would be piss easy, then if the box could keep up, youd have a nice and very dangerous car to drive.... as it is atm the esp ruins the fun constantly....

when is someone going to be able to tweak the esp? the threshold is way to low...

and with the esp disabled yes your on your own, no worries, but the smart is a terrible handler and you really need the abs and the brake balance/bias is stupid and rear tyres lock easy as the car darts left/right under brakes...

it would be fantastic if it was possible just to have the ability to disable the tcl and also disable the cars own idea that when it reaches certain rpm in gear it automatically upshifts... GRRR i hate that, stupid car in manual mode decides to change up a gear mid corner... also no fun in the wet either ;)

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Permalink Reply by BigPerformance on October 20, 2008 at 4:37pm

Andrew, did you get my email?

I also have BIG turbos for the 451 available.

Permalink Reply by Lourdes on October 18, 2008 at 12:10pm

MR. BIG,
what is the procedure to get BOTH the engine and transmission re-map? can you post a YOUTUBE video. this way i can pull my husband's ear and he can do a teeny favor to feed my fun side. then you can tell me where to send it and how much money.
we ordered a K&N filter and exhaust but it seems you can help with the lagging performance. with the items i have, the top gears shift much better, but the 1st-2nd gear is still horribly slow - please advise.

MR. KAHN,
i love your car, it is very cute. did you add the stripe or was it ordered from factory?

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Permalink Reply by 451 Kahn on October 18, 2008 at 7:45pm

As I understand Smart has one ECU that controls the whole car. On the other hand cars like BMW and Mercedes have 2 units. One is the ECU and the other is the TCU. The TCU controls the Transmission in those cars. In the Smart the ECU runs the whole operation. As my car was remaped by Veloce tuning the car shifts faster and runs stronger. A few other people on this form have had their cars remaped and experience the same. I posted my video so you can judge the gear changes.

As to the stripe I had it painted on.

Permalink Reply by Ian Pellant on October 18, 2008 at 9:11am

Ron,

The smart does have character... and that arouses emotions. If you want a bland, predictable car, buy contemporary Japanese. If you want cheap and average, buy Korean. I waited 6 months for my smart to be built and delivered because I wanted a car with character. Now I am learning how to drive it. And loving it.

I had a Honda 600 "scamp" in the '70's. Two cylinder air cooled fwd 4 speed manual. It had about half the performance of the smart. Great little car; drove it until I had to rebore the cylinders and fit oversize rings. No aircon... keep the engine clean or the heater would gas you! Honda then had a 360cc water cooled "Zot" that was a lot of fun; the engine spun up like a turbine. They also had an 1100 air cooled rally car that pumped out 100 bhp. Then Honda became popular in the USA and after the first few Civics, stopped being daringly innovative for a long time. I have had several new Hondas in my 40 years of driving.

Back to topic:
I'm now convinced that smart USA got stuck with an eccentric shifting program.

On the 451, the two low performance options in the suburbs are to use auto shift and the paddles. The paddles can be deadly when cornering 90 degrees at intersections. The steering wheel can be anywhere, the paddles lost to touch. It can cause dangerous delays in shifting. Use auto for gentle commuter driving and don't stomp on the accelerator and it works nicely. On the turbo pulse, auto has an alter ego that loves to redline. A bit scary at first.

Learn to use the console stick to shift and treat it exactly like a manual shift gearbox and many of the "problems" go away. Try to drive the smart as you would a conventional auto and you are bound to confusion.

I'm having success with a tripod and camera mounted in the rear to take videos. Camera sitting over the engine, the revs and shift patterrns are recorded. Very nice. Very precise.

The gearbox programming was the thread topic. I'm not convinced that the auto program is correct in all variants... I am sure it is different for the USA than to Australia. It is an extra cost option here. The USA gets the "no cost" version... maybe that can be applied to the "reasonable" price range argument. The stick with D, P and a lock button is North American.

Cheers, Ian.

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Permalink Reply by Ron M. Kolman on October 18, 2008 at 4:01pm

Ian, certainly the smart has character. It's very different. Having character does not go hand in glove with being problematic. I must tell you your "If you want a bland, predictable car, buy contemporary Japanese. If you want cheap and average, buy Korean", was patronizing...unappreciated. For very similar money, I would have selected a Mini Cooper. Not cheap, nor average to be certain.

Your statements Ian: "I'm now convinced that smart USA got *stuck* with an eccentric shifting program." If absolute truth be abolutely told, would you rather the tranny ran smooth as butter? When buying anything new, why should we get "stuck" (your word) with anything less than? Character?

Again you say: "Learn to use the console stick to shift and treat it exactly like a manual shift gearbox and many of the "problems" go away. Try to drive the smart as you would a conventional auto and you are bound to confusion."

Ian, there's no confusion my friend. I must learn to drive my new smart and work around it's idiosyncratic transmission (don't believe another new vehicle out there has this sort of issue...doubt it'd be bought). When I am physically tossed forward between first & second, and again between second & third, I cannot help but wish it were not so.

Concluding, I love my smart too, and wish other smart owners who are annoyed by the "lag" call/mail the smart USA corporate offices, and voice concern. Perhaps by the time my 2010 smart cabriolet is ready it will shift like Teflon. We'll see how things pan out. Thanks for all your commentary...and fun&safe driving to you all! See you in the forums.
My Very Best,
Ron

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Permalink Reply by Ian Pellant on October 18, 2008 at 11:30pm

Ron,
You are lucky if the Mini Cooper is available for similar money to the smart. Here it significantly more expensive; almost as the smart is more expensive than the Toytoa Yarris. Each of the cars fill different niches and it is unfair to compare one with another. The Yarris outsells the Mini and smart.

"Stuck" was pun referrence to a transmission that sticks in gears differently to what I am experiencing. Also when I say "stuck" I meant the US market has no factory options in transmission or engine or wheel / tire sizing. US specification Auto comes as standard. Those marketing decisions were made before the car was released in the USA. As you note: "call/mail the smart USA corporate offices, and voice concern" if you don't like it.

The US is not offered the pulse or the turbo. The US auto seems to have shift points similar to the manual prompt shift points. My pulse "softouch" program has very different shift points. The only lag that occurs in auto is when the accelerator is held too far down from a standing start and the engine revs need to be reduced before shifting. The shift itself is smooth. Manual shifts are very smooth and quick. From one forum thread, the US auto seems to be smoothest when the accelerator is held steady in one position. Under those conditions mine will lag a bit as the revs are dropped by the control unit before shift occurs. If I release the accelerator slightly when I want the auto to upshift between 3,000 to 4,000 rpm, it does so immediately. All this takes a while to learn. What suits one driving style may not suit another. What works on my smart may not work on yours.

As we know, smart use an automated clutch on a manual style transmission. It is a tradtional manual type clutch with a programmed electric actuator. There is no hydraulic slip to absorb speed differentials. There is no infinitely variable slip cone. To expect the smart transmission to feel and behave as the others do, is a false expectation. Mechanically, it cannot. Drivers who do not know this are open to confusion.

The transmission program energizes the actuator to depress and release the clutch. It emulates a driver pressing and releasing a clutch pedal. It appears to reduce engine revs if the speed difference between the drive and driven sides of the clutch are deemed too high. This would be to reduce clutch plate wear. The auto program tries to match gear selection with engine load; it is reactive (the car cannot see the road ahead). The driver can be proactive and change the gear to suit the road ahead. So I don't expect the softouch auto to always be the best mode to drive in. I am very surpised at how well it does on twisty mountain roads.... perhaps the brake system informs the transmission shift program that a downshift may be needed. I don't know, but I am impressed by it.

See: http://www.fq101.co.uk/clutchchange.asp for a good look at the 450 clutch.

As Andrew noted when he started this thread, the transmission program (software that is) must exist, but is not part of the usual engine remaps. It seems that there is a growing US market for a transmission re-program; if such is possible.

Transmission aside:
The smart is lightweight, rear engined, rear wheel drive. Most of the weight is towards the rear. The nose does lift under acceleration from rest. Take the power off suddenly and the nose pitches down. This accentuates any sudden change in power transmiited to the wheels. Front engined front wheel drive cars do not have this body dynamic. Accelerate hard from rest in the smart and before any gear changing has occured, release the accelerator suddenly and a very sharp nose dive is felt. That was not the transmission, that was the body dynamic (and a mix of momemtum.)

How much wheel and tire size, spring rate and shock absorber rates affect the body lurch, I do not know. That is a whole field for exploration.

Stick with it (there's a minor pun in there) and experiment with the accelerator and manual shifts. If you plan a vacation in tropical Australia, drop by for a test drive.

Cheers, Ian

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Permalink Reply by Carlos on October 20, 2008 at 6:57pm

Great story!

Permalink Reply by Ron M. Kolman on October 22, 2008 at 9:34am

Hi Ian.
Thanks for the thoughtful an informed explanation of the dynamic behind the 'lurch'. I believe I have a more focused understanding of how this all comes together.

I will 'stick with it'...smile, and if I make it to Australia I'll take you up on that test drive. Same is true should you find yourself in the middle states US.

Take care...be well!

Ron

Permalink Reply by mr bad example on October 16, 2008 at 9:34pm

most of my normal driving in D, the tranny hits 5th around 35mph on level ground, sometimes at 35 or less, i'll lock it into 5th, it'll flash the down arrow a couple times, but it gives up when it knows i know better. i just wonder about the older smart's 6 speed tranny and some of MB's new 7 speed trannies. i know, the smart is the 21st century beetle. VW dropping the ball, they make smaller cars in brazil and europe, but don't sell them here (the polo, then fox)

it's like this recent car show where i had my smart, a '66 GTO owner said "you sure have a pair to drive that!" (small of a car), i'm sure more americans would like the opportunity to drive euro/jap micro-cars (i'm one!) (isetta is too small, fiat and mini, parts/service too expensive/hard to find)

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