Smart Car Cold Air Intake V2 - Excellent Choice
Hello everyone,I just wanted to clear things up with the community. Our Cold Air intake V2 really…See More
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Do any listers out there have any idea where I can secure a facfory-type service manual for my 451? I've come up against a brick wall at my dealership, where I was informed no manual is available. What a load of crapola! Do smart centers expect owners to rely on the shadowy expertise of their understaffed service and parts departments? Is Roger Penske trying to control EVERY aspect of smart ownership?After waiting over a year for my car, I should at least have the opportunity to work on it myself. Hell, I can't afford $100/hour labor charges. Can you?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Contact me too. I really hate not having a manual.
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Put my name on the list please
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Please put me on the list. It seems to me that smartUSA and Penske would understand that owners of smarts are often just like the owners of original VWs. We won't pay Mercedes flat rate prices. We LIKE to work on our own cars. Our dealerships are often far away (mine is 65 miles). And many of us like to know about the mechanical workings and technologies of our cars.
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Well put and to the point. Maybe somebody from smart can respond and illuminate this issue.
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Permalink Reply by 451 Kahn on -
I think they plan on making money from us. They are not going to cut loose with any info. On the other had they do, do a good job.
Penske Smart has a good crew.
Service manager drives a Smart.
Yes it dose cost $$$.
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Permalink Reply by mr bad example on -
dealerships make their profit from the service department. not on the sales of the car. i worked in parts/service at a dealership13 years ago. this is for all brands.
personally, outside of oil changes, i'd not like to work on my smart (and install of exhaust/intake systems) the engine is wedged in that tiny compartment, very inaccessable to the common man. smart techs may have special training and service tips to work on the smart. the lighting and coolant systems are in the open.
there is a guy on e-bay that has a service CD for 450/451 smarts for 90 bux, i question it's quality, it's some personal experience and some "cut and paste" from what i hear.
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While I agree with mr bad example to some extent, I have some other information for all to consider.
First, I worked in the retail automobile business (dealerships) in all departments/areas and retired after 45 years so my information is first hand.
1. Dealerships make money from ALL departments of their dealerships. In most dealerships, the Sales Departments (New, Used, & Finance) are the most profitable followed by Parts and then Service. Dealerships must make a profit to stay in business. They have a right to a profit in return for their efforts and investment. There is nothing wrong with a profit.
2. Service Departments generally charge for their services based on a "flat rate" per hour charge. This rate varies greatly (e.g. $40 - $200 per hour) based on make(s) serviced, area of the country, competition, etc. Dealership "flat rates" are virtually always (much) higher than independent shops and "high line" car dealerships (e.g. Mercedes) "flat rates" are virtually always higher than "regular" car dealerships (e.g. VW, smart?). Should you pay Mercedes flat rate prices to service your smart? As long as servicing information (e.g. Service Manuals) is available only to smart/Mercedes dealerships, you’re virtually forced to. But, that will change over time. The market will see to that as it always has in the past. In addition, there are laws that require that service information be shared.
3. Maintenance service prices can be exorbitant based on the services provided (not limited to smart cars or dealerships). For example, I recently saw that a smart Dealer is charging $169 for the 10,000 mile service. If you look at what you get with the 10,000 mile service, it's basically an oil and oil filter change and a bunch of "checks" (e.g. check tires, belts, coolant level, windshield washer fluid, etc). I can perform the same 10,000 mile service for the price of the oil (3.5 qts Mobil 1 0w-40 @ $5.25) and filter ($12.50 at my smart dealership – soon to be cheaper when competitors make replacement filters) – total $33.50. I do (and know how to do) all of the other inspections and checks. The oil & filter are VERY EASY to change on the smart. You don’t even need to jack up the car. This whole service, including the checks, takes me about ½ hour. If you subtract the cost of the oil & filter ($33.50) from the total price of the service ($169) it leaves $135.50 for ½ hour’s “flat rate” work. That makes the per hour “flat rate” $271 per hour.
Many (most?) people are more than willing to pay this $169 as they have no idea of what to do, how to do it, are not equipped to do it, are not interested in doing it, etc. That’s fine. My only question to them would be, “Are you (should you) pay Mercedes prices?” As more and more smarts get on the road, others will soon begin servicing them. And probably for a lot less. Contrary to popular belief, you DO NOT have to have your smart serviced by a smart dealership. It has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on your warranty.
Personally, I ENJOY WORKING ON MY OWN CARS. It’s part of my enjoyment of owning them, part of my “Ownership Experience.” And, I’m retired on a fixed income. I watch all my expenditures. I’m not willing and cannot afford to pay $271 per hour for something I can and enjoy doing myself. I mow my own grass, paint my own house, do my own plumbing and carpentry, etc.
4. Dealerships employ professional Technicians who are specially trained work on the vehicles they sell (smart & all others). In addition, they have a lot of money invested in facilities and the special tools needed to properly service these vehicles. With the sophistication and technology of today’s vehicles (yes, smarts are sophisticated and technologically advanced), most repairs MUST be performed by a Dealer. And there are many, many services and repairs I wouldn’t even consider attempting. But there are also many maintenance services and simpler repairs (e.g. brake replacement) that can be performed by a knowledgeable owner. I want to know how to do those correctly.
5. Lastly, it’s MY smart. I purchased it with my money. I want a Service Manual! I want it primarily to find out more about my smart. Does it have variable valve timing? Intake and exhaust? Is it hydraulic or electronic? How does the automatic clutch work? Etceteras. And if I want to work on it myself, that’s OK. How do I drain the cooling system? How about replacing the cabin air filter? How do I get to the dash speakers. Etceteras. I think it’s reasonable to expect the manufacturer to make service information available to me. I’ve purchased many vehicles my life from many manufacturers (Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, VW, BMW, Acura, and others). In every case, I’ve purchased a factory service manual within 90 days of getting the vehicle. Some cost me $150. Yet one for my smart is not available?
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Permalink Reply by smarttask on -
Hi. cost in Italy at a Smart dealer Euro 44 + VAT at 20%,
But if you want to do it yourself.
http://cgi.ebay.it/Mercedes-Smart-EPC-WIS-2009-spare-parts-manuals_...
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Sign me up for one also.
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There is no printed factory service manual (?!)
A little while ago, I found a UK web site for buying the smart manual on DVD for 16 quid. It's a copy of the M-B service software. Dubious legality; complicated installation whereby it creates a dummy workshop server. A lot of the software setup instructions are in German. I did not expect to be buying what was most probably an illegal software. And it was a 2006 cut and didn't include the 451 anyway... Uninstall and delete.
Evilution write it up on: http://www.evilution.co.uk/index.php?page=modpage&id=347&me...
Have a look at the images on Evilution and note the level of photographic detail as well as CAD data; plus spare parts lists. The MB software is used for logging individual car service history too.
The point is: M-B themselves do not use a printed manual. It is all on computer.... and we all know how proprietary software publishers can be.
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Permalink Reply by mr bad example on
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i've got a 2 CD set of manuals for the mercedes 190, got em on ebay over a year ago, had some funky code to key in (the software key is on my laptop, i lost the password after i installed it) these discs look really "official".
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I bought a copy. Did not install as to windows version it needs. Don't buy it.
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